chelseagirl: (Peggy Carter)
[personal profile] chelseagirl
. . . and that (my previous post) makes me think of fannish trauma, which is I guess what I need to call it.

I 'ship the hell out of Peggysous -- Peggy Carter + Daniel Sousa forever, as far as I'm concerned. And yet, it rips my heart out every time I watch the end of Captain America: First Avenger and see Peggy and Steve saying goodbye and then seeing him wake up decades later. The love that could have been.

(It's also interesting that Chris Evans thinks they never got to, you know, but Haley Atwell has suggested they were at it during odd moments all over Europe. The hopeless romantic viewpoint versus the more pragmatic "they were soulmates, it was wartime, of course they did".)

And every subsequent Cap or Avengers film where Peggy is referenced. Tears me up, every single time. Because even though I love Peggy and Daniel, I mourn for Peggy and Steve. I'm a sap like that.

Meanwhile, I just rewatched Jessica Jones (for, um, the fourth time) prior to The Defenders coming out soon. And Jessica/Luke just rips my heart out, especially those final episodes where he's been Kilgraved and she thinks it's real. Where while he's unconscious, she says she never saw a future with anyone, but she could have seen a future with him, and she would have liked that future.

And then in Luke Cage, they paired him with Claire Temple, whom I adore. I have loved Claire in every one of the Netflix-Marvel shows, and she was nearly the only thing that made Iron Fist bearable for me. (Jeri Hogarth's cameos helped, too.) And Defenders previews make it clear that when Luke gets out of prison, he and Claire are back together. (Claire using his catchphrase "Sweet Christmas!" during IF also kinda made it clear they were keeping in close touch while he was away.)

Claire is so much more emotionally stable than Jessica, and she was smart enough to walk away from Matt Murdock because she saw the darkness in him. Claire is quite literally the best. BUT . . . of course there is a but.

I'm not a comics reader, and the only thing I knew about Jessica Jones going in (besides that I've always liked Krysten Ritter) was that she was Luke Cage's wife and that they had a child together. And Ritter and Mike Colter had chemistry that just burned up the screen. So when they ended up apart at the end of the series, I wasn't too worried. Heck, Claire even seemed to be shipping them, in her cameo appearance.

Except for the case of Steve Rogers and the Carters. Because (and don't laugh too much at me, if you're Marvel-literate and you're reading this), I do know that in the comics, Steve is with Sharon Carter. And that when the MCU pushed that in the last movie, it did not really seem to take for a lot people, including me. Now there are rumors about that Comic Con reel and whether Steve will try to use one of the infinity stones to bring Peggy back somehow.

But the comics' Peggy was blonde and American, not brunette and British. And she ended up with a Howling Commando, not an SSR officer. She's kind of not entirely the same character.

Which is me trying to differentiate. Because I need Jessica/Luke to be the endgame. But I don't know comics Jessica at all, and if she's less messed up than tv Jessica by the time she and Luke become a thing. I cannot imagine Ritter's Jessica as the mother of a child, at least not until a lot more character development and emotional healing happens. I do know that Luke is with Claire in the comics at one point and she leaves him because . . . well, for similar reasons to why she never hooked up with Matt. So maybe if the shows continue long enough . . . but I'm rarely the kind of 'shipper who gets this invested. What is it about Jessica/Luke for me?

The other thing I loved rewatching is the friendships. Especially Jessica and Trish. I was surprised to see there were more Jessica/Trish stories on AO3 than Jessica/Luke, because I love them so much as a friendship, complicated but so deep, and sex makes it almost cliched. (I was really disturbed to see how much Jessica/Kilgrave has been written, by the by . . . ) Also Jessica and Malcolm's friendship and how the caretaking roles reverse as Malcolm's true self emerges. So glad to see Eka Darville's name in the cast list for The Defenders; wish I'd seen Rachael Taylor's there, too, but maybe we'll get a Trish Talk cameo or something . . .

Date: 2017-08-07 03:06 pm (UTC)
amaka: 19th-century woman curled up on a couch, reading a novel (Default)
From: [personal profile] amaka
<3 to get to see you fanning! :-)

You make me want to catch up on all these series...

Date: 2017-08-13 08:35 pm (UTC)
amaka: 19th-century woman curled up on a couch, reading a novel (Default)
From: [personal profile] amaka
I always imagine that you manage your busy-ness better than I manage mine! :-D

I still haven't watched the second season of Agent Carter that I purchased streaming at the start of that season, less because I was so very busy and more because I was disappointed it wasn't renewed and I'm afraid of "watching it up," if you know what I mean (there are still tiny bits of FK and HL that I haven't watched, for fear of closing those books, so to speak).

But! There's no end to Marvel canon, on the page or the screen. Maybe I will make that second season my Sunday night show during this lull after Grantchester and before Poldark and Once Upon a Time return.

Date: 2017-08-07 05:25 pm (UTC)
selenak: (Peggy and Jarvis by Asthenie_VD)
From: [personal profile] selenak
re: Peggy and Steve, their scene in The Winter Soldier was the most touching moment in a movie not lacking in same for me.

re: Jessica & Luke: Jessica is that messed up in the comics when she's first introduced, but her relationship with Luke isn't, because a) she didn't kill his wife (which means she also never kept such an information from him when they started to have sex) and b) he's never been Kilgraved. Which makes for an entirely different relationship premise - they get together because of mutual attraction, and while there are some arguments, they're never as serious as in the tv show because of that difference in premise. (Also, they don't date exclusively at first; Luke has some other girlfriends, while Jessica is set up by Carol (Danvers, her bff in the comics the way Trish is in the tv show) to go out with Scott Lang (Ant Man the second) for a while as an alternative to Luke when she starts to have relationships again post Kilgrave. (It doesn't work out.))

The angst and drama of the tv show version of Jessica/Luke did much for me, but at the same time, it did make me understand why they need some time apart after the events of the first season. As to which relationship the tv powers that be intend to be endgame: cynically, I'd say that depends whether or not they intend to continue Luke Cage and Jessica Jones beyond a first season as shows. If they do continue both, then Jessica and Luke won't end up as a couple. If they continue only Luke Cage, they won't either. If they continue only Jessica Jones, they will.

Date: 2017-08-08 12:28 am (UTC)
lunabee34: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lunabee34
I want Jessica and Luke to be endgame, too. I haven't seen Luke Cage yet, but that's on the agenda.

As much as it broke my heart when he was Kilgraved and she thought it was real, I think him being controlled was necessary for him to forgive her eventually.

I love Jessica and Trish. Such a good best friend show. That "I love you" that Kilgrave thinks is for him and is really for Trish just slays me. Best moment in the whole damn thing.

Date: 2017-08-08 06:10 pm (UTC)
lunabee34: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lunabee34
Now that I go to bed much earlier, I just have the time to mainline shows like I did.

*shakes aging fists*

LOL

I have promised myself I will get to LC this semester, though.

Date: 2017-08-08 06:25 am (UTC)
sholio: sun on winter trees (Default)
From: [personal profile] sholio
You know, I think it's actually the doomed-ness of Peggy and Steve that is a lot of their appeal for me! Well, along with the entire story of Peggy putting her life back together post-Steve. It's not that I dislike them as a pairing, at all! I think they're very sweet together, and I don't want to read fic that breaks them up or erases their relationship in the 1940s. But I've found that I don't really have that much interest in reading fixits that either bring Peggy to the present day (without having lived through the intervening decades) or allow Steve to live past the end of the war, because if Peggy never had to make it on her own, if she ended up being able to lean on Steve's cachet as Captain American ... it's just not as much of an appealing story, for me. And, yeah, some of it has to do with breaking up Peggy and Daniel, who I also really like. But it doesn't quite feel like a happy ending for her, in the same way that Peggy having to make her own difficult-yet-rewarding way in the world, and finding a new love post-war, feels like a happy ending.

... I kinda just love Steve/Peggy as a doomed wartime romance but not as Peggy's endgame romance, if that makes any sense.

Peggy being brought back in the present day doesn't bother me as much as the idea of Peggy being taken out of her own time (and missing out on her whole entire life), but I'm still not sure where I'd actually want that to go.

Date: 2017-08-09 04:11 am (UTC)
sholio: Captain America in the rain (Avengers-Steve rain)
From: [personal profile] sholio
Yeah, I think the biggest problem with Peggy being taken out of the timeline (even aside from the personal consequences to her) is that it would have caused history to go REALLY differently. SHIELD probably wouldn't have happened without her. And while it is true that SHIELD ended up getting infiltrated by HYDRA, they said somewhere in the Winter Soldier movie that they had to wait 'til Peggy was out of the picture to make her move ... which means that if she got taken out of the picture after SHIELD was up and running, HYDRA would probably have taken it over. Can you imagine the consequences of this happening at the height of the Cold War?? Ye gods. Steve might've had to put her back to prevent WWIII or a full-blown HYDRA dictatorship in the present day.

But yeah, it really does hurt that he missed out on so much.

On a sillier level, I wonder if Steve would start going to the Midsummer Night's Swing dances at Lincoln Center and hang out with the vintage crowd, going to see Dandy Wellington and His Band and etc. Or if he would feel like that was all too much playacting.

Awwww. Steve going to vintage events. THE FEELS. ;___; That's a good point, though, that it might just end up feeling like a costume party to him, a reminder of everything he lost ...

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