Angel, Troy, and Taming of the Shrew
May. 20th, 2004 07:51 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
chelseagirlAngel first. I wanted to post before I saw anyone else's reactions. You know, just in case I found out that the fans are organizing to bring a class action lawsuit against Joss for emotional distress or somesuch thing. Because . . . I liked it. Not everything about it, but I liked it. So before the howls of outrage intimidate me into silence (or rather, lack of energy to argue), here goes.
First, the one post I accidentally read upon opening my email this morning compared it to the "everybody dies" ending of Blakes' 7. Yes, I'd say, in the fact that an awful lot of fans are going to be ficcing them out of the situation. But also, no. Things were left wide open. Is Los Angeles likely to pull a Sunnydale, and disappear off the face of the earth? No. Are Our Heroes likely to pull this one off? Well, as long as there's a potential francise, hell, yeah. And, major player in the Apocalypse? Mown down in an alleyway doesn't scream major player, and even if you say "Well, taking down the Black Thorn Circle" was his major play, then I say, "Oops, you've got me there, uh, no, denial! denial!" Though now having read a single other commentary, I'm thinking that my state of mind, coming back late from a Shakespearean comedy, and with Snarky Guy who just wants it to be over so he can rewind the tape and watch Enterprise, may have helped me skim over the surface. Damn. Still, going out in a blaze of glory, is that such a bad ending for these characters? I mean, no, it's not, but . . . damn.
Wes' death. The nature of this episode was such that nothing was given enough attention, but I really felt this, and I wasn't sure I cared enough about anyone on the show anymore to feel anything for them. Yes, I sniffled when Illyria said, "Do you want me to lie now?" (And yes, the family cynic rolled his eyes and said, "I can't believe you're crying exactly where you're clearly meant to cry." Which is a fair cop, but . . . ) I've been avoiding spoilers this season, but I kinda knew, but even if I hadn't, and even if I'd managed to doze through all the other Wes-anvils this season, the moment he told Illyria there was nothing he wanted to be doing, it was beyond crystal clear. Wonder if he would have died if they'd been renewed. And geez, Wes had really become the new Angel -- brood guy. With the difference that AD can actually, well, act.
(And what disturbing thing does it say that I finally found him attractive in this episode?)
Lindsay's death. If the show had retained the noir feel of first season, then yeah. But it was jarring. Everyone else gets the chance to redeem themselves on this show, and most of them need it, but Lindsay's deemed irredeemably contaminated? Though it was a nice twist that Lorne did it, and it explained his disgust towards things, and his need to walk away. Eve was about my least favorite character ever, but it was one of the more effective moments when Angel said, "It's time to go" and she said, "Go where?" She broke with the senior partners for Lindsay, and what does she have left, now?
What would you do if it was your last day on earth? Major shout-outs here, to all the tie-ins with plotlines past: Anne, Connor, refs to Cordy, Doyle, etc. These bits made me happy. Favorite bits (approximately rendered, since I haven't rewatched): "Like you'd come by for coffee if the world wasn't ending?", "Try not to die. I find you not visually displeasing," the final exchange with Harmony, but most of all:
Spike at the Poetry Slam. Full circle. Of course, what it may have suggested is that it's not the work, it's the trappings. *eep!* But William has been vindicated. And moreover, a certain snippy Spousal Unit, who was sure Spike was gearing up for the mother of all bar fights, was proved wrong for once.
Troy. This has been commented upon so effectively on my F-list, so I'll just add a few bits, both serious and snarky:
In some ways, the movie's strongest element was the visual. It was stunning, it fit much of what I know about the period (go ahead and correct me, it's okay ;-) ), and it'll help me a lot to visualize on my next read-through of the Iliad, Odyssey, and Aenied. But why, if all this money and love and energy was lavished on production and period detail and etc. -- WHY on earth didn't they put a bit more attention into getting a decent script? Oh yeah, and that color blue that a lot of the Trojans' clothes were dyed -- okay, I'm jonesing over a color, but that was an amazing blue.
My take on the cast was that it ranged from brilliant to competent to incompetent, with shout-outs to Sean Bean and Eric Bana for being both useful *and* decorative. And you know, Brad Pitt did a pretty good job, really. Brian Cox and Brendan Gleeson played Agamemnon and Menelaus effectively, though making them such beasts really stacked the deck against the Greeks. (I mean, who needs Aphrodite to turn your head if you're married to a big hairy monster and pretty boy comes along?) There was that rather awful Helen of Troy on tv a year or so back, but with Rufus Sewell (yum) as Agamemnon, the deck was a lot less visually stacked.
Everyone pretty much knows the inaccuracies, but when Menelaus fell so early, all I could think was "Well, Telemachus has an opening in his calendar now." (Uh, lunch with Menelaus and Helen in the Odyssey. Nevermind.) What bothered me more was the cutesy nod to the Aeneid, where Paris gives him the Sword of Troy. Which was kinda clever, except then Paris bloody escaped himself. "Give it back, it's mine?" "No, I have to go found Rome, Virgil said so, or, er, *will* say so." And you can't say they didn't run across each other again, because Helen was in the same group with Aeneas.
How adorable was Patroclus and how very much did he look like someone had sampled Brad Pitt's DNA? (Anybody else remember the theme song to the Patty Duke Show, which was *ehem* before my time too, but there were endless reruns: "Because they're cousins, identical cousins"?)
And how career-destroying was Orlando Bloom's performance? At times I couldn't tell if he was playing Paris Prince of Troy or Paris Hilton (he pouted a lot and wore great outfits that showed too much). When he finally took to his bow, little wimp who couldn't handle a sword, I had major LOTR flashbacks.
And finally, and you knew I was getting here, how much does Sean Bean deserve to star in The Odyssey? He lit up the screen everytime he was on it, 'cause of how he managed to both act *and* look good, a feat only approached by Eric Bana. His character was more complex than the others, and I want *more* of wily Odysseus. Certain elements in our group sighed loudly whenever he came onscreen, and I was irritated with Agamemnon for moving in front of him repeatedly in the parley scene. Hey, pesky major character, you're blocking the view! Although, the guy whittling the horse, and the anachronistic lightbulb you could practically see over his head? *ehem*
Taming of the Shrew last night, by a small company run by one of![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
silme's friends: good production, though the uncutness of it made me wonder about the whole Christopher Sly framing narrative. Even Shakespeare can do what is less than optimal, which is comforting. Five or six performances in the huge cast stood out (yes, silme, Jeff's among them). And, damn, but it's hard to work around the misogyny there.
First, the one post I accidentally read upon opening my email this morning compared it to the "everybody dies" ending of Blakes' 7. Yes, I'd say, in the fact that an awful lot of fans are going to be ficcing them out of the situation. But also, no. Things were left wide open. Is Los Angeles likely to pull a Sunnydale, and disappear off the face of the earth? No. Are Our Heroes likely to pull this one off? Well, as long as there's a potential francise, hell, yeah. And, major player in the Apocalypse? Mown down in an alleyway doesn't scream major player, and even if you say "Well, taking down the Black Thorn Circle" was his major play, then I say, "Oops, you've got me there, uh, no, denial! denial!" Though now having read a single other commentary, I'm thinking that my state of mind, coming back late from a Shakespearean comedy, and with Snarky Guy who just wants it to be over so he can rewind the tape and watch Enterprise, may have helped me skim over the surface. Damn. Still, going out in a blaze of glory, is that such a bad ending for these characters? I mean, no, it's not, but . . . damn.
Wes' death. The nature of this episode was such that nothing was given enough attention, but I really felt this, and I wasn't sure I cared enough about anyone on the show anymore to feel anything for them. Yes, I sniffled when Illyria said, "Do you want me to lie now?" (And yes, the family cynic rolled his eyes and said, "I can't believe you're crying exactly where you're clearly meant to cry." Which is a fair cop, but . . . ) I've been avoiding spoilers this season, but I kinda knew, but even if I hadn't, and even if I'd managed to doze through all the other Wes-anvils this season, the moment he told Illyria there was nothing he wanted to be doing, it was beyond crystal clear. Wonder if he would have died if they'd been renewed. And geez, Wes had really become the new Angel -- brood guy. With the difference that AD can actually, well, act.
(And what disturbing thing does it say that I finally found him attractive in this episode?)
Lindsay's death. If the show had retained the noir feel of first season, then yeah. But it was jarring. Everyone else gets the chance to redeem themselves on this show, and most of them need it, but Lindsay's deemed irredeemably contaminated? Though it was a nice twist that Lorne did it, and it explained his disgust towards things, and his need to walk away. Eve was about my least favorite character ever, but it was one of the more effective moments when Angel said, "It's time to go" and she said, "Go where?" She broke with the senior partners for Lindsay, and what does she have left, now?
What would you do if it was your last day on earth? Major shout-outs here, to all the tie-ins with plotlines past: Anne, Connor, refs to Cordy, Doyle, etc. These bits made me happy. Favorite bits (approximately rendered, since I haven't rewatched): "Like you'd come by for coffee if the world wasn't ending?", "Try not to die. I find you not visually displeasing," the final exchange with Harmony, but most of all:
Spike at the Poetry Slam. Full circle. Of course, what it may have suggested is that it's not the work, it's the trappings. *eep!* But William has been vindicated. And moreover, a certain snippy Spousal Unit, who was sure Spike was gearing up for the mother of all bar fights, was proved wrong for once.
Troy. This has been commented upon so effectively on my F-list, so I'll just add a few bits, both serious and snarky:
In some ways, the movie's strongest element was the visual. It was stunning, it fit much of what I know about the period (go ahead and correct me, it's okay ;-) ), and it'll help me a lot to visualize on my next read-through of the Iliad, Odyssey, and Aenied. But why, if all this money and love and energy was lavished on production and period detail and etc. -- WHY on earth didn't they put a bit more attention into getting a decent script? Oh yeah, and that color blue that a lot of the Trojans' clothes were dyed -- okay, I'm jonesing over a color, but that was an amazing blue.
My take on the cast was that it ranged from brilliant to competent to incompetent, with shout-outs to Sean Bean and Eric Bana for being both useful *and* decorative. And you know, Brad Pitt did a pretty good job, really. Brian Cox and Brendan Gleeson played Agamemnon and Menelaus effectively, though making them such beasts really stacked the deck against the Greeks. (I mean, who needs Aphrodite to turn your head if you're married to a big hairy monster and pretty boy comes along?) There was that rather awful Helen of Troy on tv a year or so back, but with Rufus Sewell (yum) as Agamemnon, the deck was a lot less visually stacked.
Everyone pretty much knows the inaccuracies, but when Menelaus fell so early, all I could think was "Well, Telemachus has an opening in his calendar now." (Uh, lunch with Menelaus and Helen in the Odyssey. Nevermind.) What bothered me more was the cutesy nod to the Aeneid, where Paris gives him the Sword of Troy. Which was kinda clever, except then Paris bloody escaped himself. "Give it back, it's mine?" "No, I have to go found Rome, Virgil said so, or, er, *will* say so." And you can't say they didn't run across each other again, because Helen was in the same group with Aeneas.
How adorable was Patroclus and how very much did he look like someone had sampled Brad Pitt's DNA? (Anybody else remember the theme song to the Patty Duke Show, which was *ehem* before my time too, but there were endless reruns: "Because they're cousins, identical cousins"?)
And how career-destroying was Orlando Bloom's performance? At times I couldn't tell if he was playing Paris Prince of Troy or Paris Hilton (he pouted a lot and wore great outfits that showed too much). When he finally took to his bow, little wimp who couldn't handle a sword, I had major LOTR flashbacks.
And finally, and you knew I was getting here, how much does Sean Bean deserve to star in The Odyssey? He lit up the screen everytime he was on it, 'cause of how he managed to both act *and* look good, a feat only approached by Eric Bana. His character was more complex than the others, and I want *more* of wily Odysseus. Certain elements in our group sighed loudly whenever he came onscreen, and I was irritated with Agamemnon for moving in front of him repeatedly in the parley scene. Hey, pesky major character, you're blocking the view! Although, the guy whittling the horse, and the anachronistic lightbulb you could practically see over his head? *ehem*
Taming of the Shrew last night, by a small company run by one of
silme's friends: good production, though the uncutness of it made me wonder about the whole Christopher Sly framing narrative. Even Shakespeare can do what is less than optimal, which is comforting. Five or six performances in the huge cast stood out (yes, silme, Jeff's among them). And, damn, but it's hard to work around the misogyny there.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-05-20 07:32 am (UTC)*BTW, hi there. I found you through
no subject
Date: 2004-05-20 07:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-05-20 08:30 am (UTC)I still think Eve made a better liason with the Senior partners than what's his-name. She was intensely irritating in exactly the right way, and a wee slip of a girl can in context be more menacing than a big lug.
I thought they made the right decision with Lindsey. I'm kinda surprised Lorne let himself get pushed that far, but it makes sense that he'd separate afterwards.
That touches on what j and I thought they should have done this season, instead of what they did. A general problem with shows is escalation. After a rain-of-fire type apocalypse, they don't really have much escalation possible. So i think they should have gone small- less of an explicit story arc, more mostly stand-alone eps, and more focus on how the association with Wolfram and Hart was corrupting everyone, each in their own way. And more conflict among them, since everyone would be much better able to see each other's corruption than their own...
no subject
Date: 2004-05-21 05:21 am (UTC)BTW, wayback we were talking about *Fantastic Alice* which you were willing to sell me secondhand, but we sort of never got our acts together. Would $5 cover it with media rate postage? EMail me at chelseagirl@tsr2.net with your address.
no subject
Date: 2004-05-20 08:38 am (UTC)As I mentioned elsewhere, I do prefer to believe that once Joss's name appeared on the screen, they were joined by a small army of Slayers. I can't believe that with all the care Angel put into this plan that he didn't at least try to enlist the aid of a Slayer or twenty.
no subject
Date: 2004-05-21 05:25 am (UTC)Good! I shall go back to thinking happy thoughts. ;-)
no subject
Date: 2004-05-21 01:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-05-20 08:57 am (UTC)I have some Shrew coursework essays to mark this weekend. They were writing on male/female relationships as demonstrated in the play, bringing in historical practices/references as well.
This week, we had the Angel episode in which Illyria loses some of her strength. We still have a little bit to go, but not too much.
We haven't seen Troy. Is it worth it? Will I cringe too much? I can't even watch Mel Gibson movies after Braveheart with its historical inaccuracies. I've given up on his films entirely.
no subject
Date: 2004-05-20 11:40 am (UTC)I don't go see Mel Gibson movies anymore because he's an annoying git. ;-)
no subject
Date: 2004-05-23 04:25 am (UTC)Gibson is an annoying git. You know, my youngest nephew (age 25 :) is dating a woman who's in her second year at seminary to be a Presbyterian minister. She didn't see how Gibson's most recent attempt at re-writing history could make anyone want to convert to Christianity. (This was in response to my saying that some churches in England were buying up tickets so that church members could take non-believers.)
no subject
Date: 2004-05-20 07:29 pm (UTC)Arrrgh, I'm soooo bad at interpreting these things. That's why I was so impressed with the scene in Slings and Arrows where Paul Gross' character was explaining Ophelia's descent into madness. I mean, it was so moving and made you go "ooooooohhhhh." I never had a good teacher for Shakespeare. I don't even think I read any in high school.
no subject
Date: 2004-05-21 05:38 am (UTC)I took two semesters of Shakespeare in college, as well as reading at least one every year in high school. But basically, he wrote it as popular entertainment, so as long as you're following the storyline, you don't have to worry about boring academics. M. had trouble understanding some of the performers in this one -- Shakespearean language in an American accent was new to him!
no subject
Date: 2004-05-20 08:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-05-21 05:41 am (UTC)