VMars & OitNB -- anyone done and ready to spoiler-talk?

[chelseagirl]

Anyone here want to talk about Veronica Mars? (I can actually justify that horrible thing that happened, but I think Rob Thomas may have just scuttled his chances of getting a season 5.)

Or Orange is the New Black? (The last season is sooooo much better than the previous few. Blanca, Taystee, and Suzanne were my MVPs, of course, and Piper's story I think was important to show how privilege makes all the difference.)

ETA: Apparently no one, then?

Comments

[amaka]

Sorry! -- I'm afraid I haven't watched those series, or even know what network/service they're on, though of course high praise for both floats around generally.

It's a strange, fragmented, pop-cultural world we've entered. Even people who have the same services and watch the same shows watch them on different days ... kind of like the old syndication model to the ultimate extreme. (I couldn't convince anyone to watch and discuss the first season of Discovery quite in tandem with me, and now that more people are watching, I'm way behind on the second season myself!)

I miss appointment TV. That may be why I cling to PBS Masterpiece so fervently. Same night, same time, same station, forever and ever...

[chelseagirl]

It really is. I either see things much later than other folks, or I'm so passionate that I binge fairly quickly and am done before anyone else is ready to talk.

Also, I often don't pick the same things as the rest of fandom to get excited about. I have no idea what Guardian is, for example, except that everyone seems quite keen.

[havocthecat]

Do I need to spoil myself on Veronica Mars before I watch it?

[chelseagirl]

Probably wise.

I was glad that I was spoiled, but as I'm not sure about your specific feelings about the characters, it's hard to say for certain.

[havocthecat]

Wikipedia has bupkis, so any suggestions on where to go for recaps?

ETA: Found something. Huh.

[chelseagirl]

Yeah.

I enjoyed the season and I can see the reasoning behind the thing, but it was badly timed with all the other franchises that have been doing something like that recently. Rob Thomas massively misunderstood the fanbase and shot himself in the foot. I'd still watch a season 5, but I suspect there will be a much smaller audience, if it happens.

[herself_nyc]

Me! I want to talk about Veronica Mars.

[chelseagirl]

Are you in the "definitely not watching even if there's a season 5" camp, or the "that was gratuitous but on the other hand . . . noir" camp? I don't think there's an enthusiastic camp, which is a pity, because up until that moment I was really enjoying. And I do wonder if that character had reached his potential for growth and had nowhere more to go, and the noir detective is archetypally a loner, so there's that. But it strikes me as a massive misreading of the audience and their investment in the characters.

In other words, I'm disappointed but would definitely watch another season, but I'm thinking Rob Thomas shot himself in the foot.

[herself_nyc]

I suspect that when season 5 comes out, I will succumb to curiosity. But as of now I've quit my Hulu account, so I won't even be rewatching s4. Which I was thoroughly enjoying until they blew up V's life.

I do agree with various critiques I've read that V was too "arrested development", too mean, too self-absorbed in this iteration, that the whole plot was too meanspirited and "why is the ugly short guy always the villain". I mean, I agree sort of, but my experience when watching the eps was just delight and interest in how it would be solved.

And I was so happy that L and V got together, because I rather irrationally ship them VERY hard -- even though I'll admit that Logan's character is kind of 1-dimensional -- but damn. I just love him, and that 'ship. Ending it, especially that way, was so stoooopit of Rob Thomas.

I thought, "He couldn't even have waited and just blown Logan up or whatever at the beginning of s5 instead? If he HAD HAD HAD to?

But his idea about VM being noir and her character needed to be always unfulfilled feels very much like putting random plot memes before character. And there would've been a million ways to move Mrs and Mrs Echolls on from Neptune, and even do a s5 where he's alive and off on some mission and we never see him. Killing him felt like spitting in the fans' faces. :(

[chelseagirl]

I didn't have a problem with Patton Oswalt being the baddie, because it's so against his usual type. Yes, Veronica is spiky, but I didn't have a problem with that, either.

I think that Logan had evolved into his best self, and I wonder how would he fit into the show longterm now that he's not a problematic person? Everyone else but Wallace kind of really is, to a greater or lesser extent. I'd hate to see him regress -- and at least this way the fridging trope is gender-swapped. And sorry, but I DO buy into the noir detective as loner to an extent. But yeah, I feel like Rob Thomas has NOT been reading the social media, or understanding the fans, or he'd realize how much of the fandom was invested in that relationship in a really passionate way. In the original seasons, I was super-invested in the 'ship even as I was screaming to myself what a disastrous choice he was. (I remember in the publicity for the movie, Jason Dohring wearing a "Team Piz" t-shirt because he was pretty aware of that, himself.) Although I get Thomas's point that the heart of the show is Veronica and Keith, I just really, REALLY wonder what he was thinking. I hope we get another season, but I have a feeling that even if we do, numbers will have dropped off considerably . . . .

[herself_nyc]

I had no problem with PO either, I was just referring to various objections to the season that I saw online.

And I DO think noir characters need to be dark loners I have no prob with that in general! My issue -- I think we actually totally agree here -- is that Thomas idea of using his VM character that way is fine, but as you said, he really misjudged where the audience's focus is, and in being true to his idea of the character's future, he's lost a good deal of the potential audience for further seasons. And I STILL think that those story telling pros could've figured out some way for Veronica to still be a dark loner but with Logan. Hahahahahaha. I just can't let go of them. It's funny because I don't get emotionally involved in every romance on every show I watch, but when I do, I DO, and it's for life. It's for life.

[herself_nyc]

Noticing my randomly chosen icon, the creators of Elementary managed to find a way for Sherlock to be a weird dark loner but still co-habiting friends/partners with Joan, all these years, and it has not been boring.

[chelseagirl]

Yeah, they could have done something more with Logan being healthy and stable in contrast to Veronica -- again reversing the usual gender stereotype, and partly their earlier relationship, since although she was traumatized and sarcastic, his anger issues were way more visible. So that could have been really interesting.

But it's mostly the loss of audience which I bemoan because I'd still like to see more Veronica and Keith. (I said love but that made me think of LoVe, of course.)

[trepkos]

I can't see VM until it comes out on DVD, but I wish I could talk about it!