Cornwell, O'Brian and Bears, oh my . . .

[chelseagirl]

So did I see myself becoming obsessed with not one but two series of novels set during the Napoleonic Wars (and, uh, actually involving military types). A resolute no.

But I've just started HMS Surprise, the third Patrick O'Brian Aubrey-Maturin novel, and I've taken a breather midway through Sharpe's Honor since I was gulping these down too quickly.

For anyone who's interested: I have almost opposite responses to the two series. I know it's the common thing in Sharpe fandom to say you like Cornwell's novels better and that the movies ruin a lot of it, but while Cornwell is certainly stronger at battle scenes, and much more often than not the book plots are better, I never would have been drawn in by the books. I honestly don't like a lot of the thought processes Cornwell attributes to Sharpe; Sean Bean's portrayal is really what draws me to the character. Harper's better drawn in the novels, maybe because I don't have to deal with what's going on inside his head, and more often he seems to get to quietly show Sharpe up. But I miss the ongoing presence of the Chosen Men; even having officers like Harry Price and Leroy more present doesn't really compensate for that. I love the movies, with all their flaws; I read the books because I enjoy them and to get the extra info, but I'm not loving them.

On the other hand, I liked Master and Commander didn't love it; my immunity to the beefy charms of Russell Crowe may have something to do with that (as opposed to Sean Bean, mmmmm). The books, on the other hand, are terrific. I love that Jack's a bit of a dim bulb about certain, well, quite a few areas outside of his own expertise, really. I am endlessly amused by Stephen's eccentricity.

From some things I've seen in linaerys and queenofthorns's journals I may be disappointed in some of Jack's future behavior, since I'm only starting novel number three. Sophie is such a 19th century novel heroine -- not Austen but someone a bit later, like Dickens. "Be good, sweet maid, and let who will be clever." I like her, but I feel a bit sorry for her. Diana is the kind of character that a 20th century novelist may play with more freely; only maybe Wilkie Collins could have handled a character like that sympathetically, and even he would have felt obliged to punish her in the end.

They really do make you just want to keep reading . . .

Comments

[silme.livejournal.com]

We missed Master and Commander in the cinema (like we miss a lot of things since the nearest cinema is 18 miles from home :), but it's out now on DVD. Is it worth a rental?

[chelseagirl.livejournal.com]

It's a good movie, not an amazing one. It's well worth seeing for the ship and the way it portrays the conditions. But I liked it well enough to want to read the first book and once you do that, you're hooked!

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

What I like about both Sophie and Diana is that they both are allowed to change (and not always in *good* ways) throughout the series - they're people, not just minor female characters, I suppose is what i'm trying to say ... And much as with Jack & Stephen, I am occasionally deeply exasperated with them and occasionally love them to pieces.

I was VERY angry with Jack in HMS Surprise for a while, but certain scenes with a sloth made me quite love him again. And there's some very, VERY sad stuff in there as well. Sigh! I love these books. I will be sad when I finish the series but happy that I have so much to reread ;)

As for Cornwell, I have to say that I like some of the ruthlessness of Book Sharpe - he's more believable in a lot of contexts than Movie Sharpe is (and I do like Movie Sharpe better earlier on when he's got his enormous chip on his shoulder ...) But as you say, Sean Bean *IS* Sharpe now - I usually just imagine him playing the role in the books as well. But now I've read O'Brian, I think he is the vastly superior writer.

[chelseagirl.livejournal.com]

As long as Sophie and Diana change in a realistic way, and Sophie doesn't wake up one morning with all her mother's worst personality traits, that sounds good to me.

Jack just strikes me as a walking hotbed of cluelessness -- what specifically made you mad at him? And I do think that "You have debauched my sloth" is probably the finest line in all of literature.

I wish Stephen washed more. He's really more my type than Jack is . . .

It's not ruthless Sharpe that bothers me. It's when he is thinking about women, and suddenly he has the emotional maturity of a particularly unsophisticated fourteen year old. I don't mind characters being unfaithful -- considering the circumstances of Sharpe and Teresa's marriage and considering she is not the totally cool Movie!Teresa, I can understand. But the way his thought processes are written . . . uck.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

As long as Sophie and Diana change in a realistic way, and Sophie doesn't wake up one morning with all her mother's worst personality traits, that sounds good to me.

No, Sophie’s still a good egg as of Book 12, and Diana has also revealed very unsuspected depths of many things ;) They are, though, very much the minor characters – one of the blurbs on the back mentioned that these books are an epic about friendship and in some ways, they really are. But I just love how O’Brian fleshes out even the most minor characters …

Jack just strikes me as a walking hotbed of cluelessness -- what specifically made you mad at him?

The fact that he didn’t realize that Stephen was desperately in love with Diana and that he was hanging about after her in Post Captain, hurting both Sophia AND Stephen. GRRR! I wanted to smack him. But I’ve long since forgiven him and he’s a darling a lot of the time.

And I do think that "You have debauched my sloth" is probably the finest line in all of literature.

Heeeee! I love HMS Surprise and that scene is a big reason for it …

I wish Stephen washed more. He's really more my type than Jack is . . .

In some ways … In others, Jack is much more emotionally open and he grows older, wiser and more interesting as the books continue (plus, he sounds like The Sexy anyway ;)) So I’m thinking Jack and Stephen together are basically the perfect man!

It's not ruthless Sharpe that bothers me. It's when he is thinking about women, and suddenly he has the emotional maturity of a particularly unsophisticated fourteen year old

Heh! Well, Harper does always say that anything in a petticoat turns Sharpe’s head inside out. He’s got a very definite damsel-in-distress kink there, though (something that is absolutely NOT Teresa in the movies, although in the books a bit more so) – that’s why he falls for the Marquesa so easily (have you read Sharpe’s Sword yet? I don’t want to spoil you for the book version – one of my faves – if you haven’t!)

[chelseagirl.livejournal.com]

Nah, Stephen really is more my type. In fiction, I too often go for the overintellectual, emotionally clueless character. I had a crush on Mr. Spock in third grade. ;-) Sad, innit?

Plus I just never crush on Russell Crowe even when I love his characters. Even in LA Confidential, when his character was totally up my Philip Marlowe tarnished knight alley, I was busy looking at Guy Pearce, though I didn't like his character nearly as much. Though I confess I don't have the same vivid mental picture of Stphen from the movie -- when I think of the actor, I keep seeing Silly Billy in Sharpe. At least the DVD is out soon!

I did like a lot about Sword as a book -- no Lass, but yes cool Irish priest, and the plot twist with the Marquesa was a major plus. But once again, Sharpe's drooly thought processes annoyed me greatly. "You have the emotional maturity of a blueberry scone" comes to mind!

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Hee! Well, I was completely enamored of Guy Pearce in LAC as well, because Bud White scared the shit out of me.

But once again, Sharpe's drooly thought processes annoyed me greatly. "You have the emotional maturity of a blueberry scone" comes to mind!

See, the Marquesa, I completely understood. In fact, I kind of loved the idea of Sharpe being in the throes of a powerful sexual obsession - he basically just is living to sleep with the Marquesa at one point and I found it powerful and believable that he was just so much in thrall. I liked that. (Plus, the Marquesa is the first highborn lady - even if she isn't - that he beds - at least if you completely ignore Sharpe's Trafalgar anyway.)

It's when he gets all 'I must rescue the damsel' that I want to slap him - and that is the crux of his entire problem with Jane, if you ask me. That's why I adore Lady Anne so much - because she isn't a damsel, she wants to sleep with Sharpe (and who wouldn't?) and she ends up rescuing him!

[chelseagirl.livejournal.com]

I so feel like an evil one-note Scrooge and I"m afraid if I keep saying these things you and the other Sharpe fans won't want to play with me anymore. *sniff* But I didn't find the sexual obsession to be written well enough to really catch me up in it. I've come to the conclusion that I"m reading (devouring) the books out of my deep love for the characters and wanting to know *everything* but it's more as a Sean Bean fangirl than a lover of Cornwell's writing.

Forgive me?

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

I so feel like an evil one-note Scrooge and I"m afraid if I keep saying these things you and the other Sharpe fans won't want to play with me anymore. *sniff*

Awwww! No, no, you can TOTALLY disagree with me (or anyone else) and we'll still play ;) Unless you reveal that "Sharpe's Gold" is your favorite TV movie episode, in which case cancel everything I said ;)

But I didn't find the sexual obsession to be written well enough to really catch me up in it. I've come to the conclusion that I"m reading (devouring) the books out of my deep love for the characters and wanting to know *everything* but it's more as a Sean Bean fangirl than a lover of Cornwell's writing.

Well, yes. And I think the reason I found the sexual obsession so fascinating is that I basically just picture Sean Bean acting out all these books, so then I was thinking about Sean Bean being sexually obsessed and having sex with the Marquesa on her balcony and then all of a sudden ... see? It works for me!

I definitely think POB is by FAR the better writer, although Cornwell isn't bad at what he does, by any means! But I would never have read these books without having seen the series and wanting more Sharpe (tho' I never would've read the M&C books without the movie either! I just needed the push.)

[chelseagirl.livejournal.com]

Sharpe's Gold is the finest cinematic experience of our time.

Only kidding. ;-)

I think you're probably a much more visual reader than I am. I wish I saw the characters in my head more than I do -- *sigh* -- since I've been teaching writing I tend to pay way more attention to technique than is probably healthy for me. I think I'd really enjoy reading them the way that you do! Maybe when I get to reread them during a slower-paced stage in my life . . .

I was talking about this with one of my Alice students who is an artist and sees *everything* she reads as a movie in her head. The classic John Tenniel illustrations really jarred her because they didn't fit her own images, and when she started looking at other illustrators she had more of a sense of recognition. So she is going to write a really iconoclastic evaluation of all this, which should be majorly interesting.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

I think you're probably a much more visual reader than I am.

I am a VERY visual reader (and occasionally, writer - when I am writing that is. I basically describe scenes that I see sort of complete in my head, if that makes sense.) What's weird is that I really have no artistic talent whatsoever. So I dunno where that comes from...

Also, my first read of most books is super, super fast, so unless it's extremely glaring, I don't get annoyed by much stuff (and if the book REALLY annoyed me I don't read it again.)